Nepal Now: On the Move
We're talking with the people migrating from, to, and within this Himalayan country located between China and India. You'll hear from a wide range of Nepali men and women who have chosen to leave the country for better work or education opportunities. Their stories will help you understand what drives people — in Nepal and worldwide — to mortgage their property or borrow huge sums of money to go abroad, often leaving their loved ones behind.
Despite many predictions, migration from Nepal has not slowed in recent years, except briefly during the height of the Covid-19 pandemic. About 1 million Nepalis leave every year to work at jobs outside the country. Tens of thousands go abroad to study. Far fewer return to Nepal to settle. The money ('remittances') that workers send home to their families accounts for 25% of the country's GDP, but migration impacts Nepal in many other ways. We'll be learning from migrants, experts and others about the many cultural, social, economic and political impacts of migration.
Your host is Marty Logan, a Canadian journalist who has lived in Nepal's capital Kathmandu off and on since 2005. Marty started the show in 2020 as Nepal Now.
Nepal Now: On the Move
Tricked into going to Russia, Khakendra fled before reaching the front lines
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Of all the reasons I’ve heard for Nepalis migrating to work abroad, this one was the most shocking: to fight for the Russian Army in its invasion of Ukraine. The news first reached the mainstream media in mid-2023 but long before that, photos of young Nepali men posing in Russian Army uniforms had been circulating online. For the unemployed, or under-employed, Russia quickly became the newest, fastest way to earn foreign currency, topped up in some cases with the promise of an appealing foreign passport.
But soon after, news of growing numbers of battlefield deaths began making headlines, and calls grew for the Nepal Government to intervene. It did ask the Russian government to prevent recruitment, which seems to have happened in recent months, according to reports. But the government says 40 Nepalis are confirmed to have died fighting for Russia and an even larger number of corpses are undergoing DNA tests.
Today’s guest, Khakendra Khatri, was planning to go work in South Korea when he was approached by a Nepali recruiter in Dang district. At first he wasn’t interested but the man persisted for more than a month to sell him the dream. Finally, Khatri agreed that the conditions offered were worth his recruiter’s fee of 7 lakhs (700,000 rupees or 5,200 USD) to buy a spot. He was promised a 5-lakh monthly salary, permanent residency in Russia after 1 year, and the chance to procure a visa in a western country.
Khatri was told that he would be cooking for the soldiers, behind the front lines, but when he got closer to the battlefield he saw that wasn’t accurate—he had been designated as a fighter. The Nepali man quickly started negotiating a way out.
A quick note before we start: SLC means school leaving certificate, or a grade 10 diploma.
You'll notice that the sound quality isn't at its usual level in this episode. That's because we were missing some equipment in the studio so we had to go to Plan B to produce this one. Apologies for that.
Resources
Article about Khakendra Khatri, Centre for Investigative Journalism Nepal
40 deaths confirmed of Nepalis fighting in Russian Army – Kathmandu Post article
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Music by audionautix.com.
Thank you to Himal Media in Patan Dhoka for the use of their studio.
We were taken to a second camp and there, uh, my name suddenly popped up as somebody going to combat. And that's how I actually realised that I was going to war.
>> Marty:Hi, everyone. Welcome to Nepal. Now on the move, this is the show that talks with some of the thousands of people leaving this country every month, as well as to those among the few who return to settle in their homeland. My name is Marty Logan.• Of all the reasons I've heard for Nepali's migrating to work abroad, this one was the most shocking. To fight for the Russian army in its invasion of Ukraine. The news first reached the mainstream Media in mid 2023. But long before that, photos of young Nepali men posing in Russian army uniforms had been circulating online. For the unemployed or underemployed, Russia quickly became the newest, fastest way to earn foreign currency, topped up in some cases with the promise of an appealing foreign passport. But soon after, news of growing numbers of battlefield deaths began making headlines and calls grew for the Nepal government to intervene. It did ask the Russian government to prevent recruitment, which seems to have happened in recent months, according to reports. But the government says 40 Nepalis are confirmed to have died fighting for Russia and an even larger number of corpses are undergoing DNA tests. Today's guest, Kikendra Khatri, was planning to go work in South Korea when he was approached by a Nepali recruiter in Dang district. At first he wasn't interested, but the man persisted for more than a month to sell him the dream. Finally, Khatri agreed that the conditions offered were worth his recruiter's fee of 7 lakhs, 700,000 rupees or US$5,200 to buy a spot. Khatri was told that he would be cooking for the soldiers behind the front lines. But when he got closer to the battlefield, he saw that wasn't accurate. He had been designated as a fighter. The Nepali man quickly started negotiating a way out. A quick note before we start, SLC means School Leaving Certificate or a Grade 10 Diplomatic. Please listen now, uh, to my chat with Kikendra Khatri, recorded at himalmedia in Patten Doka. His words are interpreted by Hima Rai. Kikendra Khatri. Welcome to Nepal now podcast. We want to talk about your experience going to Russia. But before we do that, I want to ask you about your early life, where you were born in Nepal, where you grew up and went to school, that kind of thing.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Namaste. Thank you. I was born in Rolpa, in Ganga Devi Ruler municipality of Rolpa district. I went to the Bhagwati Basic school in that village. So when I was in grade two, my mother passed away. Um, then I was sent to my maternal home where I studied until grade eight. But our financial situation was really, um, hard. So I started selling vegetables since I was grade eight. And then I continued my study while selling vegetables. That was a small business that I started. Then I gave my slc. And even after slc, I, uh, enrolled in the local plus local college for my plus two studies. And I continued to do the small business as I continued my studies while, um, doing my college. Then I, uh, started learning Korean language because I wanted to go to Korea. But then the pandemic happened, so, um, the Korean government did not open the recruitment process. So I got back to my little business. Uh, and then agents reached out to me, and they. I don't know how they reached out to me, but they started luring me to go to Russia. They gave me many promises. And then that's how I, uh, got recruited for Russia. When the agent first contacted me, contacted me, I was still thinking about it. So it took him almost one and a half months to convince me. The agent lived nearby, and so he would show me all these promises. Like he. He said if I went to Russia, then, uh, I wouldn't be recruited for war. Instead, he would employ me, give me employment as a cook, and then, um, after that, there would be PR in one year, and then I could go to the US and then he also said that the salary would be about, um, 3 lakhs, uh, Russian rupees, Russian currency, which would be about 5 lakh, uh, in Nepali money. So after all of these purchases by him, then I kind of, um, became forced to go to Russia at this time.
>> Marty:You did know that there was a war going on in Russia?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Yes, I knew there was a war happening, but they told me that I would be hired as an army cook and not in the active war zone.
>> Marty:So you were convinced and you made up your mind to go. And then the next step, I guess, was you had to get the money. How did you get the money? And how much money did you need to go?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Once I decided to go to Russia, then I, um, asked for loans from my relatives in the village. The agent agreed to take me, um, in seven lakh Nepali rupees. So I managed seven lakh Nepali rupees. Along with me, there were six other fellow villagers who all, all of us went to Russia. But, uh, among these, four are already declared dead by the Nepal government. So that's how the seven of us went to Russia after managing money, and then we went to interview in the embassy and then after a week of doing the process, we were flown into Russia.
>> Marty:So you came to Kathmandu to go to the embassy. Before you came to Kathmandu, did you talk to your family members and friends and what did they say to you? Did they agree that you should go to Russia or were they worried about you going?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:My family members did not object when I was still in the village, but when I came to Kathmandu, just before the interview, they had sort of said that if it's in active combat, please don't go, but if it's in Naguk, um, we guess it's alright.
>> Marty:And then, um, so you got your ticket and you went to Moscow.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So once we landed in Moscow, then we're kept in a hotel for about one day. Then a Russian person came and dropped us off at the army camp gate. And then for about two days they did our processing, like different forms. They also opened our bank account and they. And we also went through a medical. But the medical was really simple. Like that's how we spent another two days. After that, um, they drove us about, roughly about 15 hours through dense forest to, uh, an army camp deep within the forest. And there we had, uh, some training for about a week.
>> Marty:What kind of training was it?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:It was a normal sort of training. They taught us how to crawl, how to, um, handle that one particular gun. So simple stuff.
>> Marty:At that point, did you understand that you were not going to be a cook?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:I was not aware in that camp. But we were taken to a second camp and there, uh, my name suddenly popped off as somebody going to combat. And that's how I actually realised that I was going to war.
>> Marty:So you just saw your name on a list and it said combat?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:I saw my name in this list which is forwarded in these groups. We were, um, put together in different WhatsApp groups. So in one of those, in those WhatsApp group, everybody's name, like who will be going to which area to fight, etc, um, is, uh, given. And I saw my name in one such group listed as going to combat.
>> Marty:Were the other Nepalis with you then still, or were you separated?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Yeah, my friends who went with me from the village were with me. Our group had about 1300 people. About 200 of them were Indian, I think, and maybe 50, 60 were Pakistani. Rest all of us were Nepali. And so my friends were also along with me till that time.
>> Marty:Sorry, just to clarify, 1300 in the total group, 200 Indian about 50 Pakistani. Not a thousand were Nepalis?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Around 1053 were Nepali in that group.
>> Marty:Oh, I thought there was only 50 in Nepali.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:It'S only in my group that there was about 1050. But I think in total in Russia, there were about 13,000 Nepalis at that point.
>> Marty:So then you found out your name was on the list to go to combat. Then what happened after.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:After I saw my name, I was to go to the war day after tomorrow. So then I started, um, talking with who looked like an important person out there, uh, through the use of translator, I started persuading him. He was not listening to me. M at the beginning, but then I, like, I talked and talked with him for almost a day and a half, and then he agreed after there, uh, were seven of us who wanted to get out. So we each paid him 17,000 rubles. And then he dropped us off in his own vehicle some five kilometres out of that camp. And from there we started walking through the jungle. And that's how we got out.
>> Marty:So a senior commander, a senior official, actually took them out in his own car after he paid the money. He took you five kilometres away from the camp. And then what happened?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:After he dropped us off five kilometres out of the camp? It was 12 at midnight. We then started walking. I think we walked for about 16, 17 hours. And the next day, around 5 or 6pm, we found a vehicle which was going to Moscow.
>> Marty:You were walking on the road or through the forest?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So we are still walking through the forest. There was a road, a driveable road, but there were no villages, no people. It was still within the forest.
>> Marty:How were you feeling then? Were you relieved that you got away, or were you scared that someone might see you and take you back?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:We did not fear that somebody would come and snatch us back that much, but we are more afraid of wild animals, and if we found any wild animals, what they would do. And it was also snowing, so another fear was that maybe we would just perish in the cold.
>> Marty:So the car that you met, was it like a private car or a bus?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So the vehicle we came across was, um, a private car. It was, um, of a Russian person. And then we stopped, uh, stopped it, and then talked to him through Translate. And then he agreed to drop us off to Moscow.
>> Marty:He must have been very surprised to see you. It's quite a remote place, right?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So he was quite shocked to see us. Even before we stopped him. He actually stopped his vehicle after seeing us. And then we talked with him. Um, using Translate, we said that, oh, we had actually come here for work, but then we were sent to warzone. And then he decided to, um, give us a lift to Moscow.
>> Marty:So he drove you to Moscow. How long did it take to go to Moscow? And then what happened after you got there?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:We drove, uh, for seven hours. Once we reached Moscow, we wanted to pay him, but he didn't accept it. And he dropped us off at a hostel, which he knew because our visa was already expired at that point. So he made sure that we were safe. And after a day, we called our friends and family back home and they sent us some money. And then we purchased our tickets and flew out the very next day.
>> Marty:Before you got your tickets and left, were you worried when you were sitting in Moscow that the officials would find you or army people were looking for you? How were you feeling?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Yes, I was very afraid because, um, for those people who had ran away, if they found them, they were taking them back. For example, a few Indians had also escaped just before us, and we heard that they were taken back to the camp. So, yes, we were really afraid of that, of them finding us out, catching us and taking us back to war.
>> Marty:And, uh, did you contact the Nepal embassy?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So, yeah, we didn't contact the embassy. We just asked one of our friends from Nepal to purchase our tickets. And then when we got our ticket, we just went directly to airport and came back home.
>> Marty:How many days were you in Russia total?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:I spent a total of 19 days in Russia.
>> Marty:When I'm sitting here talking to you, you look very calm. But when you think about it and you tell the story like you told us now, how do you feel about what happened to you
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Right now, as I detail, uh, my story, it feels. It actually feels like a story. And maybe people don't believe it, but when I was actually there, I was really afraid. One thought in the back of my mind was that maybe I wouldn't make it home, or this is it, like, I'm going to die here. So I used to think, uh, those thoughts. So it was really dangerous at that time. But now when I say it, it does feel like just a tale.
>> Marty:What are you thinking about now in terms of Russia? Are you worried about getting your money back, or are you worried about finding the person who kind of tricked you to go to Russia? Are you worried about your friends who are still there? What are you thinking about Russia and this experience now?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So after I came back from Russia, I worked as a security guard for about six months. But then I have started an agriculture farm. So maybe, uh, something will happen out of that farm. And my father, my sisters are worried about me. And I'm also really worried. I also have to somehow pay the loan. And I think about how to pay our loan every day. So regarding the agents, I tried to contact one of them repeatedly, but I was not able to. And so, um, I've also lodged a case against the agents who sent me there. And one of the person, actually one of the agents has already been apprehended, uh, and he's been sent to jail for 17 years under human trafficking. So there's that. But my, um, prominent thought is I have to support my family. My sisters and father are really worried about me. So maybe if I get to go to a better country, a nice country, then maybe I could clear my loan and also support my family. So I've been thinking about that a lot.
>> Marty:So one of the agents got arrested in Kathmandu. Is he in jail in Kathmandu? Was the case in Kathmandu?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:They arrested him in Kathmandu and he is in a jail in Kathmandu.
>> Marty:Were you involved in that case? Like, did you go to court or they just used your statement?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Me, along with four other, um, my friends who were disused, their families had lost a, uh, case against that person. And yes, we went to court and everything.
>> Marty:The farm that you said you started, is it also in Kathmandu or where Is that in Rolpa
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:My farm is in Rolpa.
>> Marty:And is it making any profit yet or not yet.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So our family had just started the farm. And so I'm hopeful that, uh, maybe in the next two, three months we'll start making some profits.
>> Marty:So the debt that you owe for going to Russia, uh, is it 7 lakh? Is that how much money you have owing?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So the farm cost an additional 3,4 lakh. So I think I have about 9,10 lakh rupees debt right now.
>> Marty:And, um, you don't think that you could make enough money here in Nepal to pay off that debt? Even if the farm goes very well.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Farm might be profitable, but one never knows. With the marketing in Nepal, even if we were able to produce maybe, uh, my goods wouldn't find market. So I wouldn't want to take that risk.
>> Marty:So now you're thinking about going somewhere else overseas to work? Which countries are you thinking of?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Yes. So I haven't, um, decided upon any one country yet. But now I'll start talking with manpower. And if it's a good opportunity in a good country, I will certainly go.
>> Marty:Back at the beginning. If we go back to you finished your School, you finished your plus two, you were studying, you wanted to go to Korea, and then the agent came and talked to you about Russia. But before that, when you were planning to go to Korea, did you feel like you really absolutely had to go to Korea to make money, to make your livelihood? Or was it just something that sounded interesting with good money? Or did you ever think of just staying in Nepal and doing your farming instead of going abroad?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So during that time, my family was going through a lot of financial hardship. And, um, we also had a stepmother. My father had remarried, and things were not very well in the family. So I felt like the one solution for me would be to go abroad and earn a lot of money. So I was kind of, uh. It was, uh, not my desire, but it was kind of my compulsion to go abroad.
>> Marty:So when you think about going abroad again now, wherever you go, do you ever think that it's possible something could happen, like happened in Russia? Do you worry that maybe you get tricked and someone will take you somewhere else, not the place you planned to go?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Yes, um, I'm afraid of that. And I think it's normal to think that way. But then I again feel like, oh, if I only choose countries which has agreement with Nepal government, maybe I won't be tricked again. So that's how I think about it. But I'm afraid of repeating that, uh.
>> Marty:Again, all of your friends, all the people you know your age roughly, do they all feel like they need to go overseas to work, or are there some who are able to make a living and make enough money here in Nepal?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So most of my friends, even those, um, who have attempted to do something in Nepal, I've seen them failing and finally having to go abroad. And I don't think I've ever seen any of my friends actually succeed in Nepal.
>> Marty:Is there anything else you want to say about all of this?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:I'll just say this to my. To anybody who's listening. Nepali people, please don't go to Russia. Whatever your agency, please just don't go. People from, uh, all over the world, please just don't go to Russia. I want to say only that.
>> Marty:Okay, well, um, thank you very much for coming and telling your story. Uh, I'm sorry it happened, but I'm glad that you're here and you're able to tell your story, and I hope that you have lots of success in the future. Thank you.
>> Khakendra khatri:Thank you.
>> Marty:Thanks again to Khakendra Khatri for coming into the studio to speak with me today. What are your thoughts about our chat. Send us a text message by clicking on the link at the top left of the notes to this or any episode. It's a US number, so from Nepal. It'll cost you about eight rupees. You can also email me at nepalnowpod(at)gmail.com or message us on our social channels. We're@NepalNowPod. That's all for now. I'll talk to you next time.
